Episode 1: Lou and Suma

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Speakers: Teresa Lee, Lowell Heppner, Lou Sevilla, Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter)

Teresa Lee:
Welcome to UDL Conversation Cafe Universal Design for Learning podcast, where we hear from people who are designing and implementing strategies with the diverse needs of learners in mind. I'm your host Teresa Lee, and I'm thrilled for you to join our first conversation. In this first episode, we join Lowell, Adaptive Technologies Specialist at the Center for Accessible Learning and Counseling Services, in his conversation with Suma and Lou. Suma is a recent graduate from the Developmental Service Worker Program at Centennial College. She is also an advocate for the growth and development of deaf and hard of hearing children and youth. Lou is a first year Addiction and Mental Health Worker Program student. And they're also a recovery advocate and a peer mentor. As both Suma and Lou speak passionately about what accessibility is, and how it empowers them to thrive at the college, we glean the importance of Universal Design for Learning in higher education. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thank you so much for joining us, I wanted to just quickly introduce everyone or let you introduce yourself. And I'm thinking the best way to do that is just to let everyone know your name, and then the program you are in or were in. And maybe as well the reason that you chose that program. So that's a great way for everyone to get to know you. I'm going to start with Lou. Lou, could you just introduce yourself and let us know your program. And the reason you chose it.

Lou Sevilla:
Hi everyone! So my name is Lou, and I'm in the addictions and mental health worker program. So this would be my first year and I'm still in my second semester, but because of abilities, I have to stretch it out and go through the whole year. So I'm in my second semester. And I'll be starting my summer semester next Monday on May 10. Why did I choose the program? For many, many reasons. So I'm a person with a disability. And I am also in active recovery. And when I was searching for different programs, even across Canada, last summer, I just thought this was the most appropriate program. And I really related to the content. And it was just a way to extend my learning about myself in the field. I'm really enjoying it. And there's many aspects about the program I really enjoy. And I hope at some point I get to be on campus and meet you know, my peers. So I'm looking forward to that. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thanks, Lou. Yeah, I think we're all really looking forward to that to having some more human interaction. Okay. And our other guest today is Suma, Suma, if you could just introduce yourself, the program you were, in because you recently graduated. And then maybe there's a reason as to why you chose that program or career as well. 

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
Suma's saying, Hi, everyone. My name is Suma, Sumankalai, and for short it's Suma, and this is my sign name. And I just graduated from the DSW program, which is the Developmental Services program. It's a two year program. And I literally just finished my final semester just in April. So I'm all done. And I'm graduated, I picked the DSW program, because prior to that, I worked for an agency in a day program as a counselor, and I just didn't understand what the role of a DSW person was, like I understood a counselor, but I because I work with Deaf and Hard of Hearing adults and children, that affected me to be more curious and to understand what the role is and working with people with developmental disabilities. So that's why I picked the DSW program. And that's how I found out about the role of a DSW. And it just really tied into my previous work as a counselor. And I picked the program at Centennial College because it just seemed to be the best fit for me. And really, you know, growing up as an individual, I saw different people, children, adults with varying abilities. And notice that we need to advocate for all of them for children, especially growing up they need to advocate for their different accessibilities needs. So I think going through that for myself really influenced the choice that I made. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thank you. Thank you so much, Suma. So we are having a conversation today about accessibility. And we really want to know your experiences with accessibility. What does it mean to you? What are the benefits or how does it empower you in your education, I'm wondering if a easy way to start would be, if you had an example of a favorite class that you took at Centennial, and why? What what was it about that class that you found to be so engaging or enriching for you, could be anything. So maybe we'll start with Lou, is there a class that you took at Centennial? So far, I know you're not done. But that just that really stood out in your mind as something that was your favorite?  

Lou Sevilla:
Yeah, actually, it's been a very rewarding experience. And it took me a minute to figure that out, because I've enjoyed most of the classes, but honestly, the one class that's really stood out for me, and I'll continue to kind of evolve in terms of how I see this and how I'd like the world to see this is addressing stigma class. Another reason I took this course is because my end goal is to become a peer support worker, you know, addressing stigma class is a way for me to really, you know, learning what is stigma, what is mental health issues, what is, you know how people have been treated historically, have, we identify with a disability, it breaks down, like that class broke down all those kind of barriers and educated the class myself on, you know, how we actually see people with disabilities, and how they're portrayed in the media, and how that becomes unconscious bias. So they, like people like myself, who identify with a disability get very unfairly treated, you know, even an academic system, employment and so on, you know, I have a, what they call an invisible disability, but I still have experienced it. Right? And also, I love the aspect that we covered around intersectionality. Maybe Suma can also relate to this, because intersectionality is like all these other barriers. A person who, like myself who identifies as a part of a bipoc community, person with a disability, a person that is, you know, identifies with the twist, LGBTQ community, like there's all these other layers that can impact our equity in terms of access to services, because people may not be so open to providing services to us. That was my favorite class. And yeah, I really, really enjoyed that class. 

Lowell Heppner:
It sounds like a class that it should be a mandatory class. Right? 

Lou Sevilla:
Yeah!

Lowell Heppner:
It really, like the topics, you know, everything you're talking about should be, it feels like it's so crucial. 

Lou Sevilla:
It's just how much stigma really seeps into so many levels of services, I should say, how I, you know, in the beginning, even to pursue education, coming from recovery, with really the intention to be in recovery, active recovery. And what actually stopped me from getting support. Even many years ago, I didn't want to get support, because I didn't want to be identified as someone you know, with special needs or disability. But this time around, you know, wisdom. And just knowing that I deserve that. I deserve to have equal access. And it's not because as I've told you before, I think, Lowell, and also Barbara Pierre, who's from CALCS, is I can engage the content, I'm actually doing very well. I'm very proud that I have maintained such a good GPA. And it's not because of an abilities issue. It's just I need to have access to certain tools that will help me to be successful.

Lowell Heppner:
Right. Yeah, that sounds good, and an amazing course. Suma, same question for you. Is there looking back on your Centennial College career, I guess you could say, is there a favorite class you took at Centennial? And why? 

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
Well, honestly, I loved all of my classes, because they all touched on so many different topics of really what I learned in my previous work experience before taking the program. So having that little bit of knowledge and then going more in depth in the program about each topic was really a great experience for me, but I think a class that I really enjoyed was in my first semester called valued social role. And that was again about what a DSW does, what their role is, in certain organizations, how to choose an organization to work with and just the theories involved with how people with disabilities are viewed as lesser than and just how we influence people and how we can think about the different theories involved in different social roles. But also another class that I really enjoyed was working in small groups and learning in groups, for example, how to be a leader in a group. So again, I had to really analyze myself and my skills and see how I can lead people or how I can interact with others, how I can see things from another person's point of view, and how I can learn from them as well. Because I've been involved in so many different leader, leadership roles growing up, that me being a leader, and then meeting, seeing other people become leaders really helped me analyze myself and my skills. And what tools I needed to be an even better leader, with different groups, no matter them being small groups, large groups, just that they have the tools in place to lead them. And now that I'm working for an agency, with so many different people, with children, with their parents, with adults, it's such a diverse group that I work with, with such people with different backgrounds and different histories, that I need to know how to basically interact with all these people in all their different perspectives and all their different backgrounds, so I can provide the proper support that they need to pursue their goals. So that was why, you know, the couple of courses that I loved in my PSW program, and I think for me, the key for being in my program, and taking all my courses was communication, because as a deaf student, I needed obviously, interpreters there, if they had videos in place, they needed to be captioned. Again, having the captions in place are great. But again, English is not my first language, ASL, American Sign Language is my first language. So seeing things in my second language, English, you know, I need to have both hats on. So I need to be able to read English but know what it means in my own language. So having those communication tools in place really helped me. So as I said, you know, having interpreters in place and all of my classes, having everything captioned, and just you tend to use a lot of YouTube, in classes these days. And, you know, just clicking on the automatic closed captioning. And just as an FYI, to everybody, they're not perfect, those captions on YouTube, I mean, you click them, and you think it's great, but they're not great. They kind of go off on tangents, sometimes they do different words, different places, sometimes. So having the full transcript beforehand, given to me in class, so that I, when I watched the video, and I have read the transcript beforehand, then I know what the video is going to be talking about. And also giving that transcript to my interpreters, so they can read that as well and know what's going on in this video beforehand, so that, you know, once I'm watching the video, I fully understand what's going on, I can understand the information more because, you know, usually you watch a video and then afterwards, the teacher wants to talk about it or give you a quiz about it. And if I don't have those communication tools in place, then I'm totally lost, I won't be able to learn the information that I need to graduate, you know, so having those tools like interpreters, captioning transcripts, having those in place just gives me those tools I need so that if I'm not clear on things, I can ask my questions, just clarify with my teachers so that I can have the accessibility in place. And most of my teachers are pretty cool. They didn't mind having that in place. Again, as a deaf individual people sometimes look at me and they can't see my disability like Lou, it's an invisible disability, just because I can't hear it's not a physical, you can't see it physically on me. So again, that's a challenge with people who think I can do everything. It's like, Yes, I can, but I just can't hear. So I need to rely on visual things a lot more, I need to rely on my eyes a lot more. So I have a lot of things in place. So I can, you know, do the things I need to do. But again, for me communication is the key to getting the information that I need and being able to do the things that I can do without the communication in place, then that's lost for me and growing up. I had to advocate for myself, like I need interpreters I need you know everything in place for school for doctor's appointments for anything I need to go to I need interpreters or I need to be able to understand what's going on, especially at the college level as well just for my education. Communication for me was the key.

Lowell Heppner:
Thanks, Suma. Yeah, and a great point that you bring up about ASL being its own language. I think a lot of people don't realize that that English is your second language. Right? Is that how you would describe it, Suma? 

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
Yes, absolutely. English is my second language. 

Lowell Heppner:
Right? Yeah. So I think that's an important thing for people to keep in mind. And this is the perfect transition, Suma. You're making this job for me a lot easier, perfectly segwaying into the next question, which is about accessibility. We really want to know, what does accessibility mean to you? Lou? Could you give us some thoughts on what accessibility means to you? And specifically, when it comes to in class at Centennial in your courses that you're taking, and the program, when you think of accessibility, what do you think about? 

Lou Sevilla:
Well, if I can say it this way, so my experience with access, this is actually not the first time I'm I'm accessing accessibility services through educational system. Like I said, this time around, I was wiser to actually explore this option. And it started with contacting CALCS, and getting in touch with one of my supports there. So Barbara Pierre, and Lowell, tou two are my main supports, for CALCS. And you just made it so seamless, like my ability to access the service, like I just didn't know how it was going to work. But it was from day one, contacting CALCS. And what I really liked about it is that it actually forced me to do a learning audit, you know how best I learned, because I knew, you know, I approach a lot of things with anxiety. I think that speaking to CALCS, and Barbara and yourself, it kind of helped me to narrow down what it is I need, how best I learned and what tools I'll need to learn and to succeed. So like starting at that point, it really helped me to understand this process of accessibility. And then after doing the audit, and then getting into the classes, I didn't know all these options were available to me, because what I learned is that I actually learned better by hearing, like the recordings versus actually find it very anxiety timing when I first started Zoom, and it's very difficult for me to multitask. And so it was just invaluable to know that these tools would be available to me, the only thing is like so there's many professors that are willing to do their recordings, and give it to students. But not everyone was willing to do that for their own reasons. And I believe that instructors, professors are allowed to make their own, they can make their own decision on whether they want to make recording for accessibility. So I found that when I had that preset recording for me that I, you know, just lowered my anxiety, because I know I can refer back to it when I needed to. So I guess in terms of the classes, and accessibility, especially when it comes to the technology model, you were so easy to access, and you would reply right away, and it just lowered my stress level. You know, and it made my learning so much easier. And I was actually surprised, you know, by the middle of first semester, how well I was doing, I was so shocked. Like when things kind of calmed down, and I knew the support, just knowing the supports are available, I think it made all the difference. I would call it a bit of a safety net. But yes, it is an obligation, you know, under ADA, but I mean, you guys just did such a great job. Right? Like, I don't know, it just made me feel like there's a safety net for me and there are some supports I can access if I need it. And just knowing it was there made me feel so much better. And it made my learning so much easier to, you know, just meet every day so much easier for me.

Lowell Heppner:
So when Lou mentions CALCS, that's Center for Accessible Learning and Counseling Services. And Lou, I will be sending you $20 in the mail for that compliment. As we previously discussed. No, I'm just joking. That's great. So I also would I heard there was specialized supports, you know, in terms of CALCS and Barbara, but then also some important things that faculty can do about you know, the recording of the lectures can be really helpful when it's done. Is that right? 

Lou Sevilla:
I wish that I think we had this conversation, I had this conversation with my counselor that I wish it was more standardized, like, really know where it's, I'm not walking into Well, it's not literal class, but I'm not walking to a zoo. Like next week is first day of summer semester. And I don't know who's going to offer pre recordings or recordings.

Lowell Heppner:
Right. 

Lou Sevilla:
So, it makes me anxious. And then I have to have a plan around that. You know, because I want to respect, yes, confidentiality is important to me. 100%. But as a person that uses the recordings, and I actually use the transcribing? Like I'm not sure like if Suma uses it, but I do, and like even When I watched movies, I watched the transcript. So I just like to know for peace of mind walking into a class that it will be offered to me, just because this is a different learning format for everybody. And I still had those hurdles. But can I just say that accessibility is about being seen, you know, for who I am, how I identify how I learn, how I want to learn, how I prefer to learn, you know? So it's, it's people like yourself, and so now it'll be $30. But but-

Lowell Heppner:
Yeah, okay! All right.

Lou Sevilla:
That was, you know, that like that respect my needs, that see my needs, respect my needs, and just being able to work with a team of people. And I've also I've accessed a lot of services through Centennial, including the help desk, they've been good to that way. And, you know, the other day I said oh, my computer crashed, duhduhduhduh, so I contacted lol, like us, right? So and then you asked me what tools I need on the computer. And I made suggestions, and you knew how to translate that in IT terms. And I think within two days, I got the computer. And it's a computer, yes, but it's suited to me. And the peace of mind that that brought me. Right. So thank you. 

Lowell Heppner:
Yeah, no problem. That's a full team effort from Centennial. There's a lot of people that quickly did some, did, you know, that's just their jobs, right. But they did them well, and quickly, you know, so I'm glad that it worked out for you. Suma, accessibility, when you hear the word accessibility, what comes to mind? Especially with Centennial in mind.

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
So in regards to CALCS, as well, I'd never understood who they were or, you know, going into this because the pandemic happened, and I never actually went into the office. So I just emailed someone, and I said, I need access to accessibility, how do I do tha.t I'm in the DSW program. And, you know, I needed to show the proof that I'm a student with a disability, I'm deaf, and I sent that all in, and I was contacted by our Carmela at CALCS, who helped me and she was with me, same person for you know, the whole time I was there, and I never met her in person. But anytime I needed anything, you know, I would just email her and let her know, hey, I need an interpreter for this, or I need something for this. She said no problem. And she would just get anything in place. And you know, having the interpreters they're having everything in place for because my program, I took four years for the whole thing. So having somebody there for the whole four years was just magical, just having that contact person always there who always understood what I need is great. And to Lou's point about teachers providing access, you know, we as students get our letter of accommodation that we have to give to our teachers, and some of teachers get it and some of them not so much, you know. So again, like, for example, in my in an English class, I sent off everything I said, these are my interpreters, I introduced myself and I said, this is the work I needed to do. And we have to do like a verbal presentation. And you know, they didn't understand that. How are you, me, a deaf person? How are you going to do a verbal presentation, and they just didn't get that guy can do it with my interpreters. But as as you see from my accommodation level, this is what how it's going to happen, you know, so if you don't understand to do it that way, maybe give me a different way of doing this assignment. And so some teachers are sort of prepared in that way. And some of them aren't. And they go, oh, okay, how do we do this? How do I accommodate you? What do I do? No, you have to do this. So I have to worry about me getting my marks the same as any other students, because I need to get this mark to graduate this program. And it's the same sort of concept that, you know, I'm on par with the other students, but I need these extra things in place. So the key I think, for teachers is just to review any of the accommodation letters that they received from any students with disabilities, because it contains the basic knowledge of who we are and what we need, for example, like they look at me and they think I just sit down I don't look like I have disability because they can't see anything. But I have interpreters that show up. And they say, Who are you people and what are you there for? And when they see me start to sign they go, Oh, I kind of understand what's going on now. So they get a different perspective. Just because my disability is invisible, so they can't really see it at the get go. But again, they didn't read that accommodation letter at the beginning to understand that this is happening. And they just don't understand that this is how to communicate with me as the individual. And sometimes they speak directly to the interpreters and not directly to me. And that's a form of what's called audism. It's, you know, oppressing deaf people. And you know, I'm very vocal in in telling people about what I need and what you know, oppression is, and you know, that that kind of thing. But again, like, some people just automatically think like, Oh, don't you have a hearing aid? Can't you sort of lip read? Isn't there a way we can do this without the interpreters because I just don't understand this? So sometimes it's a learning experience for the staff and the teachers, and some of them are willing, some of them not so much. And I don't mind if they ask me questions about it, because then I can explain, you know, who I am and what I need. But again, to emphasize, you know, to people, if they have a deaf or hard of hearing person in their classroom, that if they have interpreters, that they need to look directly to the person they're speaking to, which is me, the deaf person, look to me, I am the person you're speaking to, not to the interpreter, right? I'm the person you're speaking to. So it's rude to not look at me. So it's me, it's my feelings, it's my expressions, it's my concepts that are coming through. But again, some hearing people still look at the interpreter, thinking, you know, I respect you know, that's what you're supposed to do, you're supposed to look at the person who's speaking. But again, it's not the interpreter speaking, it's the deaf person who's speaking, whatever they're speaking about. And so looking to the deaf person is just a sign of respect, right. And I do this all the time, I advocate for myself and other people. And actually, I did a placement as a part of my program in the GCEI department. And there were some challenges there as well, because not everything was accessible. So they, you know, putting on workshops, that's great, but we need to have interpreters in place. And we need to have things captioned, and we need to put all these tools in place. So it was actually a learning experience for them as well, and for me. And I actually hosted a couple of workshops with the GCEI department about accessibility and deaf people, and just having that awareness in place. And it was a real great learning experience about people with disabilities that they, you know, need to research and know that there are services out there, and what kind of services you know, match them better than other services and support. So it's really like a self analytical tool first about who am I what I need, and then communicating to them about what I need in place, about the best way I can, you know, achieve what I need to achieve. And I think that's what accessibility and accommodation is. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thank you so much. When you mentioned the presentation, have you encountered before, this could be for Lou, or for Suma, where you've been given different options for doing an assignment that's available to any student?

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
Suna's saying yes. Through, again, for mostly because of, you know, English classes that we're required to take again, like my other classes, I can do stuff with my interpreters, that's fine. But English class, they wanted like a formal verbal presentation with, you know, a written accompaniment. And again, I tried to explain to them that English is my second language, and ASL is my first language, and they kind of just didn't understand where it was coming from that I would be signing this instead of, you know, speaking it. And because, you know, ASL, American Sign Language has its own grammar, its own rules of language that are completely different to English. So again, I had to explain the concept that these are different languages, and they have their different ways of doing things. So again, that was a challenge for me, just in the English, understanding the English way of doing it, and then knowing the ASL way of doing it, and then just interpreting back and forth between those things. It's not an easy task for people to understand. 

Lowell Heppner:
Right. And thank you for saying that. And tying that into the concept of universal design. We call that multiple means of action and expression, right, just providing choice of assessment methods, whether it's a quiz or a written paper, or a group presentation, or a multimedia project for each assignment, giving students choice and ultimately autonomy, right? That's one thing that I'm that I'm hearing from, from you both.

Lou Sevilla:
Can I speak to that, just quickly? So within addictions and Mental Health Worker Program, there's definitely, I don't know if I can name it from the top of my head. But there were many choices for the students in terms of how they wanted to engage the assignment, like how, so it would be to like a visuals or audio recording or written assignment. So I actually was not expecting that as an option coming into centennial. So I was really happy that those options were offered to me. And the first semester, it took me some time because I was, maybe I didn't really believe that this was an option. But second semester, I really started to do more of the audio, and more audio and visual assignments. And I found I really did much better sometimes in those because I'm, I'm not sure because I'm a person with a disability, I've kind of learned to adapt, I don't know if it's adapting or it's just inherent, but because of, you know, I do have hurdles in my learning have learned to be creative in so many aspects. So I think that really helped me in terms of, you know, doing assignments, in audio visual versus an essay, like I just did so much better in terms of grades. So I was really happy those options were presented to us. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thank you so much. And that actually really takes us into our last question. So maybe you answered it, you know, maybe that is your answer. But just thinking about how does accessibility empower you to thrive, maybe thinking about an example. And maybe that was it for you, Lou, where the accessibility of a course has made a difference in terms of your success, and your ability to thrive in your program. Maybe we'll start with Suma, if that's okay. Is there an example of accessibility being built into a class and the way that it made a difference for you? 

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
Honestly, like, accessibility is kind of normal for me now, because growing up, elementary school, middle school, high school, I've had interpreters basically the entire way. So I know about using interpreters and having accommodations in place. So that's been my education. So having those tools in place is kind of normal for me, making sure that closed captionings are in place for me. sometimes having to remind teachers, you know, oh, what's a tip, you got to turn on the closed captioning. And they go, hh, right, right, right. Right, right. So some classes usually have two interpreters, they take turns back and forth, because one interpreter you know, going for a full two hours by themself is a little much. So usually, we have two interpreters and they take turns. So I said, for, that's great for classes. But if there's events that you want to provide, having one interpreter for this whole event is not great as well. So again, having two interpreters for really long events really improves as well. And for me, in Centennial College, having those in place has been really great. I have gone to a different college in the past before Centennial College. And they provided note takers, which is okay, you know, having everything in English. But again, the government has funds in place that they paid for note takers. And that was okay. But again, like, I need interpreters, because that's my first language. So having those accommodations, first and foremost, was really key for me, having you know, everything else like captioning and note takers, that would be great. But having everything spoken into my first language, ASL is perfect. And I understand that some people, you know, are not too sure about, oh, I need these combinations, and how am I supposed to do my work and everything, but just knowing who you are, and having the courage to say I need these, and having you know, a staff that really understand that and put those things in place, and is just really awesome, because then I can really be a part of the conversation of learning from other individuals about their experiences, about their pasts, and just really being part of the whole program fully. So having CALCS in place with their different options. And again, like because I show up, and I'm brand new, and I just didn't know what I could access. And they let me know, well, you can have this you can have this, you can have this and I thought well, that's great. That's amazing. So my first year, first semester I thought well, am I only getting the technology in place and is it only for this semester, or is it for the entire full year? And again, like changing from in school, in class, changing to going to virtual during the pandemics. So that's been a different learning experience for me as well. So again, you need different tools in place, you need different technology in place, you need, you know, logins and pin numbers, you need things like platforms like Zoom, and you need to learn how to do everything on screen. And having so much visual cues on screen again, was a lot of, a lot at the beginning, and who was speaking, at one time, so trying to identify who's speaking at this point in time. So it's hard to do that. But again, that's been a real learning curve as well, now that we do everything online and learn to have those visual cues in place to, you know, have the technology and have the visual cues. And again, like I'd love to do, you know, everything in person, I'm, I'm more like in person, I like to see things, you know, I like to be tactile and be able to draw on things or be able to touch people, you know what I mean? That just in person is so much better for me as a learning environment. But having everything virtual, now everything online has been such a different way of doing it. And I've muddled through and I finally graduated. But again, you need to understand having that technology in place means to have different accommodations in place, it needs to have this, for example, live transcript on Zoom, we can turn that on, you need to be able to pin certain individuals, so I can see them better, you know, bigger, as opposed to having them in the gallery view, I need to be able to use the chat function, I need to be able to see the interpreter as I'm working as well. So having so many different things in this virtual world now, to be able to understand everybody is been a learn, big learning curve for me. And for you know, I think everybody again, just learning, how do you have everybody in a Zoom meeting, how to make sure everything's accommodated in the Zoom meeting, and have everything in place in Zoom, and then Zoom have their updates, and we need to change, you know, I have make sure that their updates are in place so that we can provide all these accommodations. And again, so for everybody, you know, in this virtual learning environment, there are different tools that we need to use. So I think tips for everybody is to see what Zoom has, for example, like all the little things, you can use the captioning, the chat, the live transcript, the recording, the reactions, the emotion, the emoticons that we can use. So having all of these things in place, can really help people learn what they're doing in this virtual world. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thanks so much, Suma. Yeah, totally. There's so many different elements to the online learning environment that I think faculty are still learning. Right, Lou, any thoughts? I know you've given some already in terms of accessibility, empowering you to thrive and anything else that you wanted to add?

Lou Sevilla:
I'm just going to piggyback off what Suma, Suma makes some very good points. And this is an interesting interaction, because I really, I'm learning a lot listening to Suma's experience, which is so much different from mine, even though we access the same service, right, like CALCS. But interestingly, you know, if we move forward with on campus reentry, I know that my needs would change for accessibility. So I don't know if it's too much to ask or work in progress. That's where you're there for, and you'll advocate for our students is that, you know, the same way we kind of know this way to say it, but now we're in the world of inclusion, we're trying to enter this global citizenship and inclusion, right, where we do land acknowledgments. And we honor you know, our fellow Canadians and things like that and their contribution. I think that's not a bad idea at the beginning of classes, or professors to do that, like on a standard way. So at the beginning of class, if you identify as such, please approach me, I just find it's piecemeal. There are some that will acknowledge it in the middle, at the end, or when assignments are coming up. But I think it's important to acknowledge it for almost like meetings like, to most absolutely right, because I've worked on campus. And it wouldn't even occur to me, right? That even though I have my own abilities, other people's abilities, does not occupy my mind, and only my abilities and what I need to understand what's going on in events and things. But what about other people who have other needs? So I think that's something that college can definitely help us, to advocate in terms of this, trying to promote an inclusive world. So I think for classes, it would be great to have that acknowledgement from the beginning. That, you know, we're, like, very standard. I like to see things standardized in the college community, in every way, pamphlets and things. Like whether it's written, whether it's ASL, whether it's an audio visual thing, that's something we can definitely, we should definitely move forward to have better access for everybody.

Lowell Heppner:
Such a cool idea.

Lou Sevilla:
Yeah, I mean, it would be great to turn something on, and then you would see just the different types of learning. And then if that's what is your need, then you can definitely just access it, it wouldn't take me, wouldn't necessarily have to be two, three phone calls or emails back and forth, which is still a step in the right direction. But it should be accessibility to access. Right? Immediate access. But yeah, so I really like a lot of the points from it makes, because it's nice to hear another perspective of a student that is using the same services, but you know, has different needs. So again, in September, if we're back in on campus, I'm not using note taking now, right? But I might need it. So I just thought about that, you know, it's an evolving need. It's a changing need, depending on the class, the environment, I guess, the professor, even.

Lowell Heppner:
If I'm hearing you, right, you're talking about the importance of accessibility without having to ask for it. 

Lou Sevilla:
Yeah.

Lowell Heppner:
I love the idea, but a statement of inclusion or something like that, right, that acknowledges what the goal is of education, right? To allow everyone to access it in a way that works for them in the best way. Right? 

Lou Sevilla:
Yeah, it has nothing to do with intellect. You know, nothing at all. Just equity, the access to services. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thank you so much to both of you. This has been a really cool conversation. And I'm hoping that other people listening will find it helpful as well. I know, I've learned a lot. Is there anything else? Before we go that you wanted to say and that you haven't been able to say or a final thought that you have.

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
Suma's saying, I think it's important to stablish change, we need to have an honest good attitude. So when you meet people, you never know that they might have a disability, and just don't have a preconceived attitude about that person, or that group of people. You know, because don't judge don't bias don't have a prejudice about them. Because people are so different. They've grown up in different circumstances, they have different backgrounds. So just have a respectful, honest attitude about different people, and what they've gone through, and do your research, ask them who they are, and what they need, and what kind of support you can provide and how you can be an ally to us. What can I provide as an ally to you, but again, just having that honest, respectful attitude, I think is key to in approaching to everyone. And as Lou said, not having that stigma against anybody. So having a great attitude can just lead us into everyone being successful in the education, in achieving our goals. Because again, if everybody's, you know, having a preconceived negative notion about everyone, then that just limits everyone. So having a good attitude is this good start.

Lowell Heppner:
Right. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. So much. Anything you want to say, Lou? 

Lou Sevilla:
Yeah, no, I think I agree with Suma 100% that, you know, stigma, I think we have to continue, like everyone, like you said earlier that we could all use some education around stigma and how we perceive other people. Because you know what, it's that kind of world. Reversals, it can easily happen to anyone, you know, like you meaning to say you may need the services one day, you know, and so it's good to just be inclusive, and understand, like, I never thought 10 years ago, I would need the services, you know, and now, you know, being in my shoes through my lens. It's invaluable. And I think that if we can continue to work towards inclusion and equity for everyone, we said earlier, I think it's a step in the right direction. And I think having these meetings like this contributes to that. But one thing I would really like to I don't know if this exists because we're not on campus, like the physical campus is that I think we need to maybe have more committees with people, or have a committee, maybe there is a committee, where we have persons with a disability, with different types of abilities, issues, needs, and just have a meeting with them and ask. Suma said, you need to get to know people and ask them individually, you know, how we can enhance this program together. And not just from the allies and advocates. Yeah, we need to include them. And people that you know, have gained a lot of knowledge and education around it. But without actually having those people in that panel, like people like Suma and I, and people in the future, they'll be using the service, then it doesn't bring it as much value to the table. So you have to include people that are using the service or known advocates for the community to be a part of that panel. 

Lowell Heppner:
Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much to both of you for sharing your experience, your stories, your wisdom with other people, I think it will make a big difference. So thank you. 

Sumankalai “Suma” Kanagasekarampillai (via interpreter):
Suma's saying thank you so much for having me here. 

Lou Sevilla:
Thank you!

Teresa Lee:
Thank you for joining us for the first episode of UDL Conversation Cafe. As both Suma and Lou highlighted throughout the conversation, options and flexibility and learning environments can remove barriers to access and create more equitable opportunities for students of all abilities to succeed. And that's what UDL is all about. In the next episode, we'll meet some of these Centennial College faculty members, and learn more about UDL in action. We invite you to listen and subscribe to the Centennial College podcast on SoundCloud, Apple podcast, Google podcasts and Spotify.

• Centre for Accessible Learning and Counselling Services (CALCS)
• Universal Design for Learning at Centennial College
• Silent Voices