Episode 2: The Legacy of Anti-Black Racism in Education

Letecia Rose: This is episode two of Decoding Black. On this episode we are gonna examine the historical and present day racialization of Black people within the education system.

Podcast Intro: We have defined Decoding Black in terms of having the ability to destabilize, deconstruct and disrupt systems of oppression, the negative narratives of Black folk rooted in anti-Black racism and the history of anti-Black racism in the Western world and other systems of oppression across the globe.

Letecia Rose: My name’s Letecia Rose. I am a Black woman, first and foremost, a mother secondly. I work for Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. How about you, who are you?

Chris Taylor: Well, my name is Christopher Taylor. My mother would not be pleased if I didn’t give my full name – it’s Dr. Christopher Stuart Taylor. I am a professor at the University of Waterloo. I teach Black History so hopefully I say something intelligent on this podcast. I also used to work for the Government of Ontario, but also what I like to explain to folks is that this is my nine-to-five, my five-to-eleven, and my twenty-four-seven.

Letecia Rose: So Chris, have you ever experienced racism within the education system?

Chris Taylor: I've been... when we look at our stories and our histories, I've been through multiple levels of education in Canadian society. So I understood and understand the K to 12 so the kindergarten to Grade 12. I understand the postgraduate in terms of the university system, the undergraduate university system, but also I understand the marginalization that Black folk face in the post-graduate education system, Masters and PhD. And moreover where I did my PhD was in an institution - without naming names- was in an institution that had a tenured professor who used to - this individual is now a deceased psychologist - used to have a research program that was rooted, and FYI folks, I know you can't see me, but I'm not that old. So this is in...

Letecia Rose: I can co-sign that.

Chris Taylor: Thank you. This was in the early 2000s where you had this individual, tenured faculty in psychology, that used to put forward the pseudoscience of racism. We understand that race is a social construction, but this individual used to advocate and be published about the different sizes of Black, White and quote-unquote "Asian" skulls, and thus their brains. And in these studies he used to say Black people had biologically smaller brains. So meaning then that Black people are inherently not as quote-unquote "smart as everybody else.” And these studies were published by quote-unquote "reputable" publishers, reputable journals. And it really increased this pseudoscience of not just racism, but anti-Black racism that said Black people were fundamentally and biologically inferior to others. And so it really put Black people in the position that no matter how hard you try in school, your brains do not have the capacity to be "the best" quote-unquote. And so it justified, and a whole big... lots of studies came out. It justified the lower IQ of Black folk. But as we know through history, the IQ test itself was used to justify the dehumanization and marginalization of Black people. The way the test was created, the questions they asked on that test was a way to pigeonhole Black people to be inferior. And so this was how, people think about this happened years and years ago, but as you co-signed for me, Black don't crack. And we need to decode and understand and deconstruct this fallacy that Black people aren't as educated or Black people can't achieve as high as everybody else. And so that's really my position in terms of where I came for education. And how about yourself? Like what kind of stories and what kind of positions that you get to growing up to be where you are today?

Letecia Rose: In talking about the education system, I really think back to that first time I got connected. I felt really connected to the education system. I'm going to go way back, again I'm not old either. Let's just put that out there.

Chris Taylor: Hey I'm co-signing for that too, co-signing for that.

Letecia Rose: But I do remember there was a time where I didn't see Black teachers. In grade seven specifically, I remember...

Chris Taylor: So about 12 years old? 12, 13?

Letecia Rose: Yeah. I remember specifically being separated from all of my friends. I was labelled very early as the kid who was the troublemaker. I do think purposely separated, but I do remember the first day of school seeing who this new teacher that my other friends were going to get and she was this young, hip, cool, Halle Berry-esque, bamboo earrings, high boots, listening to hip hop. She just oozed out cool. And I felt, that's not fair, I want to be in her class. And I remember, as soon as she saw me, she came up to me and said, "Hey." Which was unreal for me because typically if it wasn't your teacher they wouldn't talk to you. So she immediately saw me and said hi to me and I felt, it's strange to say, but I felt seen. And from that day I was attached to her class, even though I wasn't in the class, but I was attached to her in that class. But I think what was so interesting about her was she helped connect me to who I was and my identity. It was the first time we had a step team at the school. She brought that in. It was the first time African Heritage Month, she created a whole curriculum and celebration about it. Don't get me wrong, we did Black History Month. It was the first time it was celebrated when she got there. So it makes me think about how representation, seeing yourself reflected, how that actually matters, how that helps specifically for me as a child showing up into educational spaces. Because I remember not feeling seen by the other teachers and her making me feel visible. Made me not only just show up, but also aspire to be her. So it also makes me think if I don't see myself reflected, how do I aspire to be her? How do I aspire to be in those spaces? You are an educator. What made you aspire to go that route?

Chris Taylor: One of the big things for me, and particularly listening to your story, is having that validation of being that Black child in a classroom, that now there's someone there to say you can be that. So for me, getting to where I am as an educator, was having that opportunity to see on a daily basis my family, who were educators, being in these spaces to validate who I was as an individual. So when I'm walking into a classroom, I understand there is a history in this country of segregated schools that goes back to 1850. So we're looking at particularly in Ontario, 1850, we have something called the Common Schools Act, where it is legal now to have, we call it separated schools that every quote-unquote "race" could have their own school. But what happened when we look at the roots of systemic racism, systemic anti-Black racism, we need to understand that that law allowed White folks to exclude Black people from their schools. And so it creates segregated schools that lasted in Ontario until 1965 and lasted in Canada until 1983. So we're not just talking about historical phenomenon here, so when you're telling your story about feeling validated and feeling like you finally see someone that looks like you, that could be you, it’s because of this history that we have in this country and globally that Black people, particularly during enslavement in the Americas, it was illegal for Black people to read and write, to be educated. When you think about that for a second. In Canada enslavement ended in 1834. So it was illegal for Black folk in Canada to read and write. And so we're looking at, what we call these diachronic realities. That history draws the straight line to you walking in that classroom and finally seeing someone that looks like you and validating who you are is because the system and history said you don't belong.

Letecia Rose: Can you repeat that? You said history draws a direct line to where I am. Because sometimes we say history doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what happens in the past.

Chris Taylor: And that's where we really need to understand how this straight line is drawn. Because if we're thinking about, we talk about the mis-education of Black folk. First it's the no education of Black folks. We must understand that during the period of enslavement, it was illegal for us to pass on our culture. We could not have our drums from the African continent. We cannot speak our language. We were forced to speak whatever lingua franca it was. French, English, Spanish, Portuguese. We were forced to do that. So we were mis-educated in a history that did not belong to us. So we're in these spaces now that is taking this time to move forward, to draw this straight line that you don't actually belong. And we're feeling that in these spaces. So when we're looking in terms of this mis-education, particularly when we start looking at these globalized Black identities, we look at the education of Black folk in the Caribbean specifically, let's say Barbados.

Barbados being a British colony, the same thing Canada was a British colony. Enslavement ended in Canada officially 1834. Barbados is 1834 with a period of apprenticeship that went until 1838. So during this period, up until 1838, it was illegal to be educated. But then there was a push, particularly in the Caribbean, particularly in Barbados, there was a push for education. First run by the church. So then what happened? It became a cultural birthright to be educated in the West Indies. So in our last episode, you talked about your family coming here from Jamaica, right? My family came from Barbados. So we came from a culture of education. We came from spaces that over a hundred plus years, that education was our cultural birthright. Barbados, Jamaica has some of the highest literacy rates in the world.

So why is it then when you come here, you’re placed in that class that said you're not quote-unquote "as good” as someone else. Now we're looking at the 21st century, this whole phenomenon of streaming. They say you are not good enough, but these have these ties in the pseudoscience that I first talked about. It has these signs in the illegality of Black people being educated; this social Darwinism that people still believe in the pseudoscience’s alt-right pseudoscience that race is real. So my question to you then is, how is this reflected? And how do you see this being reflected in your line of work? How do you see this being reflected in how Black kids are being funnelled in particular directions?

Letecia Rose: Well, it's interesting where you talk about young people from the Caribbean. I know a lot of experience from young people who are coming here from the Caribbean. They're usually held back. They're told that they have to repeat a grade. Specifically my husband, that was his experience. He was told that he had to go back one grade when he knew everything just as well as his peers. But there was that perception that because, where he was coming from, that he didn't know as much. So it's deep rooted in how it shows up in our school systems as well. So when you talk about that culture of education, it's not necessarily being reflected here for young people. The other piece I think about is that ripple effect that it has. If I don't see myself, then how do I aspire? So if I'm not seeing that from a young age, if I'm not hearing my history from a young age, I might not want to go to high school. If I'm not going to high school, I'm dropping out at increased rates, then I'm not going to post-secondary. But you also talked about this, how it feels, this isolation in high schools. I'm curious, does that happen in post-secondary spaces?

Chris Taylor: So lived experience is very important for Black folk. When we look at things or theories like critical race theory or Black feminist thought in theory is rooted in the lived experience. That voice is critically important to understand the academic spaces that we live in. So the key to tying this together is, while I was in school, it was a 40% drop out rate for kids in Ontario, Black boys specifically in Ontario, 40%. And I like to tell this story to folks. So 40% right off the bat, and if we start looking at data today, because there's lots of work out there in terms of anti-Black racism in the education system, anti-Black racism in the justice system and the healthcare system. The numbers are still hovering at those heights. Yes, there are programs through different school boards, particularly in Ontario, to address this issue.

However, if we just look at the numbers there, 40% to get, not just drop out, we call it being pushed out, right? Be expelled. Finding these ways to get these Black, particularly Black boys and girls out. So then we're in this situation then, okay, so how many people are actually Black folk are actually going to university or college? Very few. How many of them are actually even graduating? Because if you did not see a Black teacher, how many Black professors or faculty members do you see on college campuses? Very few.

Then if you don't see them there, you don't graduate, who then is actually going to be getting those jobs to become those faculty members and those instructors on these college campuses. So then it creates a silo that we were already working with 40% being pushed out in my time and the numbers get smaller and smaller then you essentially become a unicorn. And these are spaces that I live in on a day to day basis that I'm just walking around campuses and not seeing anyone at the level that I'm at.

And we need to be in spaces to understand and see that this mis-education that is rooted in enslavement, this mis-education that is rooted in the streaming that you've seen in that kindergarten to Grade 12. This being "misplaced" quote-unquote in certain streams, not being as educated as your peers. We need to start understanding that and saying, "Hey, what's actually going on? Is it an individual issue or is it a systemic issue that is pulling people in those direction - Black folk?"

Letecia Rose: So the question I want to ask you is, well, why does this matter then? Why should we actually care about this? So the listener is hearing this, it might feel daunting. Why should we care about this and, can I add to that, What do we do about it?

Chris Taylor: Why should we care? Because we are humans too. I wake up in the morning, I eat food. I'm a person. I'm an individual. And in the last episode we talked about the dehumanization of Black folk, but we need to also understand as a society, that we are real feeling human beings, too. And we talked about, last episode, about this being the international decade for people of African descent. There are over 200 million people of African descent. We're not just talking about folk on the African continent. These are your friends, these are your neighbours, these are people who work with you. They're people too. So if we don't care, we're excluding a vast majority of our population and if we're trying to move forward as a society, an inclusive society, we need to include all. But I want to hear your take on that. How do you perceive and move forward on this?

Letecia Rose: I think that, and it's a tough one for me specifically because I work with, I think, the remnants of what happens. When you have communities that are pushed out of specifically education spaces or denied access to those spaces, I deal with a lot of the products of that. And a lot of that is children and young people. And if they don't see... they already feel isolated and disconnected from school environments. But if this was happening to my parents, then it's now a generational thing. And then if this is how it's happening for me, is this now the narrative for my kids? So how do I aspire to more? And I think a lot of the roots of the issues that we're facing in communities, not just where we are, but around, comes from a lack of understanding of who I am, what my purpose is. And I think that's a lot of the roots of the issues that we're facing right now.