Episode 2: Racial Trauma and Anti-Black Racism

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SPEAKERS

Basirat Naphew, Talisa Boland, Joyce Mgbolu, Brandon Calliste

Joyce Mgbolu  00:02

Welcome to Centennial College Undiluted Podcast, episode two, recognizing, coping with and overcoming racial trauma. In this episode, we will discuss the causes of racial trauma and how to recognize it. Importantly, we will discuss ways to cope and manage the distress that emanates from racial and racial trauma, and such as anti black racism. Our main focus for today's episode is to create more awareness to the public and work collectively as a community within and outside Centennial College to dismantle anti black racism to prevent racial trauma. Students, guests Basirat Naphew and Brandon Calliste will share their perspectives on these critical issues. And our professional guest speaker, Talisa Boland, will partake in these conversations to create awareness, provide supports and offer coping strategies for overcoming racial trauma. Now let's get started. I have here with me Basirat Naphew. Basirat Naphew is a final semester student of the Social Service Worker program, an active member of the Experience Centennial student leadership team, Centennial Toastmasters Club, a passionate volunteer, embodied entrepreneur, and a devoted parent of two. Welcome, Basirat. It is nice to have you here.

Basirat Naphew  01:28

Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. Thank you, Joyce.

Joyce Mgbolu  01:32

Also, with me here today is Brandon Calliste. Brandon Calliste, born in Toronto. Both parents migrated to Canada from Grenada. Currently a student in the Social Service Worker program at Centennial College, Brandon has worked with organizations such as Urban Promise as a community counselor, and is currently volunteering with the Toronto Community Housing in Scarborough. Welcome, Brandon. I'm pleased to have you here as well.

Brandon Calliste  02:00

Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here.

Joyce Mgbolu  02:03

Thank you, and I am joined by Talisa Boland. Talisa Boland is the founder of Take Courage counseling. She has a desire to work with people who are navigating through life's hardships, and helps them to overcome them. Talisa's passion as a counsellor includes working with black youths. Talisa holds an Honors Social Service Worker diploma from Seneca College, a Bachelor of Arts in Human Services from Tyndale University College and Seminary, and Honors Bachelors of Social Work and the Masters of Social Work both respectively from York University. Talisa is a registered social worker with the Ontario College of Social Workers and Social Service Workers. Furthermore, Talisa currently serves at Centennial College, as a professor and college field supervisor in the Community and Health Studies departments in the Social Service Worker program. have professional counseling experience includes working with various mood disorders, depression, anxiety, faith and spiritual issues, anger and so on.

Talisa Boland  03:13

A lot of other things.

Joyce Mgbolu  03:15

Exactly, yeah. So I will move on.

Talisa Boland  03:21

Yes, Joyce, I just want to say thank you so much for having me, and I'm very proud of you as well, too.

Joyce Mgbolu  03:26

So the challenges that come with the impacts of racial trauma can be damaging, and we cannot deny these issues are worrisome and seriously affecting members of the black community. I believe there's silence on this matter and more awareness needs to be drawn towards addressing this crisis that I feel has not gained enough attention from the public. Before we go deep into our conversations, I would like to give a trigger warning to listeners. Centennial College Undiluted podcast provides an open and safe space for important and thought provoking exchange of ideas. Some content in this episode will include discussions that some individuals may find traumatizing, I would like to advise listeners about potentially triggering contents, and I ask you may choose not to engage in listening to the podcasts in order for us to create an atmosphere of mutual respect and consideration. If you're feeling overwhelmed, or let's say having a trigger due to these conversations, please do not hesitate to seek help to aCALCS counsellor, even speak to a College counselor by sending an email to CALCS@Cetennialcollege.ca. Thank you for your understanding. Okay. Beginning with Brandon. I was wondering if you could tell us some impacts of racial trauma from your perspective, which may include lived experiences, or ones you observed in the black community.

Brandon Calliste  05:01

Oh, okay. Okay, well, well, my my opinion is, I believe, um, the racial trauma in itself is, is almost like a psychological disease. There's always a foundation and it stems from somewhere. And, and then a lot of times it stems like it stays in our mind, sometimes forever. Well, for me, it's stemmed, it's in my mind for right now. Um, there's, I can say, like, from the first time I was exposed to it, it was from my own friend. Sorry, David. I have to, you know, for educational purposes. Yeah, he was in school. And he called me the N word. Like, I didn't really, when I grew up, I didn't really look at color, like black and white. I just thought we were all like loving people. And I was I just believed in God, like, you know, so. Basically, I kind of I felt it, I just knew it was it was kind of derogatory, but I didn't really understand the N word. As you know, my parents came from Grenada didn't really, I guess, experience white people calling them that word, because, you know, Grenada is fully black people. So I had to, I guess, deal with it my own self. I actually I struck him, I hit him, teacher ended up, he ended up crying to the teacher. Teacher came to me like, Hey, what happened? I'm like, Hey, you called, he called me the N word. And then she's like, okay, she told David to sit down. And that was it. You know, there was like, no repercussion for David. No, not that I was expecting anything. I just don't understand like, Hey, why, why? Why did like my friend, call me this word? And why'd I feel so bad at this time, you know? And this was in grade, grade three. And it always stuck with me. Me, me and David are friends now. But I don't, I don't, I don't even think he understood what he was saying. But it did hurt me a lot. So that effect, you know, it was strong. Till now. All right.

Joyce Mgbolu  07:07

Well, so just to clarify. So you're saying that word they would use, the N word. You still feel it up until now? Like,

Brandon Calliste  07:18

Yes, yes. Yeah. And maybe you could even say maybe, I'm like, you know, you see it in the media you see it in workplace, it can hit you out of time. And like your, your close friend, maybe your loved one might hit you with that. And maybe that has a deeper impact. You know, obviously, if I know you hear some times, like, you know, your loved one call you something that hurts you a little bit more, someone you care about hurts you a little bit more. So, yeah, it left me, It left me in despair, you know, even even playing soccer, I used to play soccer, predominantly a white soccer league, CYO, and they would call me, hey get the black guy get the N word. But I just had to cope with those strategies myself, and this is at a young age, like 12, 14. You know, this was, I was like, eight, six, but so that, these facts don't linger today, you know, I shed tears, you can, you can get those tears, that you shed back, you, the pain that you have is, still remains, you know, until you find ways how to cope with these things. And, you know, so I always try to promote a spiritual strength, you know, and, and power and stuff like that I'll probably get into later.

Joyce Mgbolu  08:36

Brandon, I'm  really, really appreciative of your, you know, confidence in saying such personal stories in this platform, and I believe that others that will be listening to this podcast will actually identify and try to draw trends from your personality in terms of what you just spoke about. So thank you so much. And I will move on to Basirat. Okay. I was wondering if you could tell us some impacts of racial trauma from your perspective and considering your intersectionality as a black Muslim woman or student.

Basirat Naphew  09:23

Thank you. Thank you, Joyce. Um, yeah, I was thinking in just what, what Brandon just shared. And it just goes to show us how deeply you know, the hurts that we feel when, if we experienced racial trauma, it is something that is, it's a serious challenge that, it affects millions and millions of people every day. And like you rightly mentioned, this is something that is often not addressed. It's something that the society, the wider society, does not acknowledge or talk about, so people are left to deal with it by the, by themselves. I come, Brandon shared something that happened to him in grade three, that's probably 10, 15 years or even more, but you can see how passionately this speaks about in how people still feel the hurt they felt back, so many years back. So in the world that is right now, it's something that can really be, can erode people's mental health, it makes it difficult to concentrate at work or school. And it constantly disrupts your life. He also mentioned about playing soccer and that out, that even plays out when he's playing with his friends that are not of the same color. So it's not something that we can afford to continue to ignore, I would say something like we're having this conversation, it's a good way to start, it's something we need to bring to the forefront, that we need to address the impacts and the effects on the people that are most impacted. And the exposure to discrimination, it can either be directly or indirectly, it triggers the trauma. Again, Brandon also mentioned even on TV, we see it in different places, I cannot maybe speak of having a direct impact. But of course, there's so many examples I can tell you about of indirectly experiencing racial trauma, for example, as a Muslim, and a woman, a black woman, too. But I don't wear hijab necessarily, I don't wear head coverings. But again, that does not protect me from feeling the trauma. When I see the news of so many racialized, motivated assaults going on against Muslim, Black Muslim women. Like me, I have friends, I have families that were injured. But when I hear these stories, it keeps playing in my head that this could happen to any of my loved ones. This could happen to any of my families, this will be my sister. And it's very disturbing. At some point, like last year, I think it was in Edmonton, there was a report of about five attacks on Muslim black women in a series of just 10 weeks. That was one to many. And it was disturbing. So I would go out, I will say, Muslim woman, I'm not wearing hijab, I will see one wearing hijab, and I can fear for their safety, I can look around and be like, This person must be afraid. So it's not something that we, we're not sheltered from it, even if we're not directly impacted, you feel unsafe in a place that you call home. And I can imagine just sharing from the experience, how much more those that are indirectly impacted will feel. So the discrimination that they feel first time and the trauma for them definitely will be a lot more long lasting. And it's something that can be very hard to recover from that, if ever recovered from. So I think, and again, so it all has to do with a systemic discrimination. And as long as the systemic racism exists, you know, it's gonna be hard to, to do away with racial trauma.

Joyce Mgbolu  12:50

Wow, Basirat, it's very thought provoking, something to really reflect on. And this actually takes me back to some of the courses in the social service worker program that looks at racialized and marginalized women and the complex issues they have looking at the intersectionality. It is really so, so saddening that we are all humans. So I do believe that nothing should separate us, we should all, there should be a form of equity in society. It shouldn't be about the color of your skin, how you look where you're from, I think the world will just become a better place if we all learn to work collectively. What is just a pity, the capitalist system we live in and post colonial times in modern times, is still deeply rooted. And I think we are actually taking action by doing this, talking about it, because by the time this is aired, this episode is aired, well, at least it'll reach a large audience. And thank you so much, Basirat. That was really, really, really thought provoking. Talisa. Hi.

Talisa Boland  14:04

Hi.

Joyce Mgbolu  14:06

As a professional in the field of providing therapy and counseling to youths, and everyone in general, I would appreciate you share with us a brief overview on the meaning of racial trauma, and its impact on black students and the black community as a whole.

Talisa Boland  14:23

Yeah, I think you know, Brandon, and Basirat, you both kind of nailed it on the head, in terms of, there's cumulative impacts of race or racial trauma. It's not like, I hear you talk about Brandon again, like that must have been so long ago that you had that experience, but it doesn't mean that it just goes away and it causes you know, what's called RBTS. So that's race based traumatic stress, which is on going so again, when we talk about trauma, trauma is often a term that we use in the mental health profession as you know, psychological distress, but if you think about it, it's stemmed and started from the medical profession. So within medicine, so if you think of a trauma, I don't know if there's any, like, Grey's Anatomy fans out there, I'm a huge fan. But if you think about any of those episodes, when there's a trauma, it's a state of emergency, something really bad has happened. There is injury, there's harm. So that has, you know, cumulative and long lasting effects for people at times. For those of us who identify as black, there is such a thing called Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. That's what I think you talked about, you know, even though we are not, may not always be directly impacted. It doesn't mean that you know, even seeing things on TV, the history of slavery and the denial of that sometimes, within Canada, I think sometimes we look at the United States and say, we're not them. We don't have their issues. Doug Ford, a couple, I think, years ago, was at a press conference saying that, thank God, we are not like the United States, we don't have those deeply entrenched issues here. And we do. And we do. And when you see that there is absolutely a denial of one's lived experience, which is so important, you know, I hear you Joyce use the correct word, equity. I think there's this belief within our society that you know, that giving everyone equal access to things mean, that means that we're all on the same playing field, and we're not so right. You know, equity means, you know, what is fair, what do I need in order to succeed might be different from what you need in order to succeed as well, too. And then what does success mean, as well too for us? So, I think, you know, for black students, you know, the racial trauma that they face, it's so entrenched and it is so, it's so multifaceted in terms of the way that it presents within the education system.

Joyce Mgbolu  16:39

Thank you so much. That was everything like summarized in a nutshell. Okay. Moving on to the next question. How can black students, or black people recover from racial trauma? And this is going to be like a question I'm asking you all, but I'll start from Basirat, so I'll repeat the question again, how can black students or black people recover from racial trauma? I don't know if you could just touch on that. Then. I'll move on to after Brandon Talisa will tell us give us different coping strategies, resources and supports that are available. So Basirat.

Basirat Naphew  17:19

Thank you, Joyce. Thank you. I've heard one. Everybody developed the friend coping strategies. Again, I'll go back to Brandon. So it was good that Brandon started us off with his story. You know, over the years, even as a child then knowing even though his parents were not a cure, because there's no something else we developed a coping mechanisms. So our natural survival resiliency instincts will kick in one way or the other, you will view, you will come up with something to help you cope. I want to get into, we don't want to just cope, you want to be able to try, you want to be able to overcome this trauma as much as possible in the shortest possible time. And even if you cannot overcome it, that is you want to be able to still live your life, don't let it, that trauma cripple you and not be able to live life. So it's very important, I think, for us, for myself, again, to not have to experience this vampiring  when people know that there are people speaking up, you know, and those that have experienced it as well, I think it's important to create the spaces, such as this conversation is happening here and have positive spaces where they can participate, share their stories, if they're able to, you know that sometimes that's just what people want. They want to be felt, they want to be listened to, they want to know somebody's actively listening, somebody really cares. And again, so that's why we talk about this issue being systemic, because people are not even willing sometimes to even seek help from the authorities, because they fear how they might be mistreated, they fear that they might be dismissed. So that's why sometimes just having somewhere where they can create a space where somebody can go share their story, receive help without being judged, where they don't feel discriminated, where they feel safe, is essential. Then also finding supportive communities. So it's important to I know, as black communities that we have, we have organizations, we have groups or clubs, for students where they can get software, I think is really essential. So even something outside of getting support for the trauma, but just it probably you know, you know what, this is a club that understands me, this is a club that I know like you know what it feels like if I've been, experienced being called the N word. They know what it is like, they understand what the feeling is, they understand the rage that I'm feeling right now, I'll go there and you know, express my rage and they can, they get it. They will not see me as somebody that needs anger management because I've experienced that rage. You know, they get it because they have felt this emotions that I'm feeling. So having those spaces, I think is important. And try to just avoid again. So you don't want to put yourself in situations that would retrigger. You know, if you're able to do that, sometimes it's unavoidable. If it's something you're experiencing from work, you may not be able to just skip your work, because you still need it to find a source of labor, which, unfortunately, is the reality of many, they still constantly have to revisit that way, because they need that paycheck to survive, you know, so it does get in support, it's really I think, its main importance have this supportive wrap around community, you know, that you can always go to, be it family, friends, with the community center, that you can really, you know, you feel loved, you know, that people really care about me, they can really get you support. So I think that's one key way, especially for students, and even for non students, we all we all are social human beings, we are social human beings, and we just need each other to survive. And especially for us, you know, black communities with so many intersectionalities of discrimination that we may experience, it's even more important for us to form that connection and be able to support one another.

Joyce Mgbolu  21:19

Well, thank you so much, Basirat, you just reminded me of the events, the kickoff events of revitalizing, there was something I said in that panel and I, I said it with so much passion, because I felt it was lacking. I advocated that we need more black mentors, more black coaches, in faculty within the Centennial College community, you know, because it's not just about going somewhere to get support. Sometimes people and I have experienced that. You're trying to speak to someone about how you feel, but the person at the end of the day, you don't feel that connection, and you go back the same way you came in, do you get so we need that space, that safe space where we can connect with people that are actually experienced or understand or know what it feels like to be in that situation. And in any space I go to the first thing that happens is that I always look for who to connect with. Yeah, some people you just try to connect and you don't find the flow there. So I really understand and appreciate everything you just spoke about. And I think just as much as Centennial College is doing everything to, to create a safe space and the multicultural, you know, society within the within the college community, I think more efforts needs to be done in that area. Thank you very much. Okay, Brandon, do you want me to repeat the question you still have? Or do you grasp, what the question?

Brandon Calliste  23:03

No, I think I got it. Okay. Yeah, I agree with Basirat. Safe space, definitely, like what we're doing right now, given, you've given us the opportunity to express how we feel, maybe we can touch someone else and that could, you know, be the seed to plant their ideas and, you know, we can all come together and, you know, grow and, and help each other, I feel like that's important, especially in the black community, we need that's like, number one, I feel we need to support each other, you know, how often we walk down the street and we don't say hi to each other, we don't, we don't smile, you know, also the strength that we need, we need to because of these exposures to the anti black and all the biases and everything, we need to have that strength in ourselves, sorry, strength in ourselves to overcome so we got to have that spiritual strength wherever that is in you to, to overcome and combat this, right? So whether it is, if you, if you notice your friend is not is, not doing good or she, or you notice that our community is not there and we need to come together and help each other. For me, I felt anger and maybe not understanding and I felt alone. So I, my reaction wasn't necessarily the best reaction. So also having a good reaction and I feel like that comes from the spiritual strength that you have in yourself and the self that you know, you love yourself, you know, these, the effects has been so strong that it affects us how we deal with people how, how we act, you know, we might just, just how we operate in everyday life. So Tthat's, I feel like loving each other, you know that peace and love thing. And loving your neighbor and caring for each other and like creating the space is definitely on the right path to, for black community.

Joyce Mgbolu  25:15

Thank you so much, Brandon, that's such a very, very powerful, like love, human strengths, you know, being part of a community, having a voice, having a say, having that space, that safe space. Really, really important. And I also want to thank you once again, because it takes a lot of courage to talk about, you know, such personalities in this kind of spaces. So, thank you so much, Brandon. And Talisa, how can black students, black people, generally, I mean, just recover from racial trauma? And what are the coping strategies, resources and supports that you recommend are available for people that may experience such, that may experience racial trauma? Or maybe having that, you know, beginning to feel that sense of oh, I think there's something wrong some way, but you can't really place your hands on it.

Talisa Boland  26:14

Sure. Sure. Joyce. So again, like I think, you know, all of you nailed it on the head, already, but some of the things that come to mind for me is, you know, going back to, again, this definition of trauma, and again, they're being injury, they're being distressed, something bad has happened in order to you know, coping is not solving, right, coping is dealing with as you're going through. So I think, you know, when we think about in that sense, when there is this, like no sense of belonging within the education system, and there's also at times there's no urgency to address this as well, too, it leads to destructive cycle, right. So sometimes it can be very difficult. I think Brandon used the word anger at times, exhausting, at times to, to try and cope with something that is ongoing. So while we understand that anti black racism is a thing, it doesn't mean that I think that we have to accept it in our lives. So I think where you can do, do, and when you can stand up, stand up, some of the things that you all spoke about, as well, too. One of my favorite quotes is by archbishop Desmond Tutu, passed away I think at the beginning of this year, but it says that, if you're neutral in situations of injustice, you've chosen the side of the oppressor. If you see an elephant standing on the tail of a mouse, you're not going to say to the elephant, you're not just gonna stand by and say, well, mouse, like go, run, and be free, you're going to stand up and say something to this elephant, right? Paraphrasing there. It is not, I think we also need to realize, you know, when it comes to this fight of anti black racism, it's not just for people who look like us in these four squares right now, in this Zoom Room. It is for everyone. I think until everyone starts feeling the pain and the heart, the hurtfulness of this, there's gonna be difficulty seeing change. I see a lot of performative action happening at times, I think, you know, when, when George Floyd was murdered, we saw a lot of organizations now coming up with anti black racism, mandates and policies and procedures as well, too. But how much action do we see coming from these policies and procedures and mandates as well, too, you know, because it's important for us to not feel silenced. I even think of like my own profession. At times, if I tell people that, you know, I'm a professor, I'm a psychotherapist. And they're not black. And I can recall, you know, a specific example where I took my son to a mommy and me program the other day, and one of the the workers there who was white passing. Again, I don't like to try to assume that someone's racist, but she presented as white, had said to me, oh, what do you do for work? And I sort of, you know, I'm a psychotherapist and college professor, social worker. And there was just a lot of confusion, it's like you do what? I'm a psychotherapist, I'm a social worker, I'm a professor. And it's like, well, what education do you have to do that? Sure. I'll bring you my resume. I have this XYZ ZZ. And then it's still a look of confusion. So you do psychotherapy. It's almost like this disbelief at times that we're not supposed to be here. Like, how did you get that? How did you do that? So when they think about, you know, coping, it's not just coping because coping doesn't solve but when I think about coping in this, this context that we're in when there's this disbelief that we can, we can thrive and be successful. It's important to surround yourself with black excellence. I think that's what I'm hearing Basirat saying and Brandon saying you say Joyce as well too, surrounding yourself with those support groups and people who are thriving, black people who are thriving to succeed despite the hardships against us. On top of that, I'm, I'm a, I'm a psychotherapist myself, I have my own private practice. I'm huge on therapy. Mind you, it's not always the most affordable, it's not always the most affordable. So this is also why I say it's important to watch your community. There is strength and resilience and community as well, too. But where it is ever possible, I encourage therapy, specifically a therapist who has that racially trauma informed lens as well, too. Yes, while a lot of universities and colleges do provide counseling and therapy to their students, I do believe another way in which we need to address these resources and how do we cope is schools should have and I could get in trouble for saying this, but I stand by it, schools should have specialized funding towards multicultural, funding multicultural or racial trauma informed therapists for their black, brown, Indigenous students. I think I don't know if it's Brandon that said it or Basirat or Joyce, who said, you all may have said it. But it was said in this podcast that you know, sometimes there is that lived experience piece that certain people may not understand. I'm big on education. I'm big on it. I've done it for a long time, I teach. I love education. But there are certain things that education cannot account for. And that is that lived experience piece that sometimes people may not understand unless they go through it. So yes, I think it's important to be mindful of your I think choices, say when I go into different environments, I find people I can network, network with and connect with and lean on and trust and talk to, it's important. I know, Centennial is making progress within their anti black racism Task Force to do some of these action pieces. And I'm excited about that. I also know there's some beginning stages work happening because I'm involved in it within the social service worker program to address some of the things that we were talking about today. So creating a resource group that tackles these pieces, because I said  in a meeting the other day, with some Centennial staff, you know, I said to them, I'm tired of having conversations at times with people who get it, these conversations are important to keep happening. I appreciate this platform and doing this. But there also needs to be the action piece. We know we've been dealing with this for umpteen years, right of anti black racism and discrimination as well, too, what is the action towards addressing that? And I feel as though there needs to be more preventative measures opposed to just reacting, this situation happened. Now we have to react, there was anti black racism in the classroom. Now we have to react, there needs to be preventative measures that are outlined and action taken when we see these things arising. So coping, again, is again connecting with your community resources. For those who are looking for therapy options, I would suggest blacktherapistlist.com is a great place to start as well, too.

Joyce Mgbolu  32:45

Thank you so much. So you said just to clarify, black therapists.com?

Talisa Boland  32:50

Blacktherapistlist.com. So for those who may be looking for a therapist who identifies as black, it is a website that provides you with a directory of all black therapists as well too, some of which may have what's called sliding scale. So if funding for therapy, because again, it can be expensive is a concern, you can put in your different parameters of what it is you're looking for, and conduct a search there. So that's a resource, I think would be huge. But also again, I'm calling out the universities and colleges to put their money where their mouth is, and get specialized, specialized therapists, trauma informed racially informed therapists to support specifically the black and brown students who are coming in at a different playing field.

Joyce Mgbolu  33:32

Yeah, that's so that's a good way to call out universities and colleges, because we really need these programs. We need these services to help black students and brown students succeed academically in your personal and professional development and things like that. And I just want to touch on something we are, for the, I'm actually a co op student at the Center for Global Citizenship, Education and Inclusion. And we're working at, presently working on a black mentorship initiative. I think that's a very, very good cause in terms of enabling black students to connect with a black mentee. See, that's also another way of having people that understand you and come from, come from the same kind o,f they identify the same way you identify as a black person. So I'm doing a lot of research analysis on that. I'm trying to like work with my team members at the GCEI to ensure that this program is launched, you know, which is why we made the Black Student Collective, so Basirat and Brandon, I would appreciate it if you've not filled the survey for the Black Student Collective, to do that because the more voices we have, that's the way we come to push for these things to happen. I would appreciate if Basirat and Brandon can share brief recommendations as black students on how Centennial College community can be become more involved in the fight against anti black racism.

Brandon Calliste  35:04

Thank you. So Centennial, I think what they can do, I think they can use their resources, get governments, institutions, I think they need to come together and also come together with the students, black students across, maybe across the nation, and maybe generate some type of solutions, you know, some type of recommendations to help mitigate these, you know, imbalances in these in the schools, they, you know, there's a lot of students that want to make change. And I feel like if they had a little bit more of their students input and worked as a collective, instead of, you know, they'll make the governments and institutions making the decisions themselves, then we can go somewhere, also partnerships. With other, I'm doing specifically black, because we just need more. You know, we just need more people, that's there and more opportunity for others. And a lot of like, you say, a lot of black students don't know about opportunities at all, you know, things are even happening. So I mean, if you ask them, I'm working with African food basket right now, just from my placement. And I'm sure they don't know that, like, people don't know that there's black farmers out here. And, you know, maybe maybe they will support them, you know, and maybe institution could could somehow incorporate that all together, you know, because there's so much black businesses and so much people that are willing to help and help the world and society as a whole. But there's, like barriers there. So I think, organized, I think it's going to take a whole collective of governments, institutions, students, and, you know, maybe community leaders as a whole and to start this discussion.

Joyce Mgbolu  36:57

Yeah, I really agree with you in terms of the barriers, sometimes. We want as black people, as black students, black faculty, there are certain things we really want to happen. But the system itself doesn't let that happen. There's always these systemic barriers, that just pulls you back. And you begin to wonder, even when you make suggestions, so I think the college as a whole, as a community, we talked about different organizations, I think there should be a time, first of all, to reflect, to try to put themselves in black people's shoes and reflect and see how it feels like to, to, to try to provide solutions and you're being pulled back. You want to give a voice and you're being pulled back. You want to show your skill, and have you pulled back. So at the end of the day, it's all about all the color. It's all about, oh, this person is black, I don't think, and Talisa mentioned something about the look on the woman she had an encounter with like the look on her face and look of confusion. Some people just have this bias mindset about black people, oh, they can't do it. But there's so much I said something in the panel, we are so powerful. Black people are super humans, because the kind of things you look at history and things that have come and gone in the past in terms of civil activists, people advocates, pay sets hasn't fought in terms of black people, their excellence and all that you find out that they have that resilience that has made them try through so many things. So that trend, that resilience we have as black people, I think, having that opportunity on that platform to, which at the end of the day, it all comes to equity given that, that space to try and making equity actually happen. It's not about saying it, it's about the action. I think Black history is not being taught in the unit in school generally, like from elementary school, kindergarten, my daughter comes home and what I seen in her, what they teach them, I don't really see much of black history. I think the indigenous history they just started teaching that due to the TRC and the call to action for, you know, teaching that topic in school so that children are aware of the indigenous communities, the original people, the First Nations people and how they've contributed so much in terms of resources and land and every other thing, I think it should be included in the school curriculums. I don't know what the government is doing about that. And Talisa also mentioned something about  the anti black racism task force was doing something in that area. So I really can't expand on that. She's knows better. But thank you so much Brandon for highlighting on in those areas. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Brandon Calliste  40:15

Thank you. Thank you.

Joyce Mgbolu  40:16

Yeah. So Basirat, can you give me, can you give us a take on what you feel in terms of the recommendations to involve Centennial College community more to fight against anti black racism?

Basirat Naphew  40:33

Thank you, thanks for that question. And what comes to my mind, black excellence, a lot of black people that we know that have succeeded, it did not happen overnight. It wasn't like they asked and they got one, development, the ask. So we have to make sure like even students as blacks in different roles and capacities, that we continue to speak on it, we continue to, you know, make sure we ask for what we need, we have the actual things that we've, we feel that been denied to us, right. Also, going back to that collection, having that dedicated crew, it's important, because really, no one is going to come save you. Think about it, this blood discrimination we've been facing, it's not just now it didn't happen in the 20s It's been so long. So it's about time, you know, you have that one voice, and that one voice, he needs to have group, you know, having that collective, it's very important that these people can share their experiences, you have a unified front, I think that's a good place to start. If students have like a group, I know there is Filipino club. And I think I recently somebody messaged me actually about the Black Student Group, I'm going to show you the same one. So that will be a good place to start for students, they know they have been put at ease, it's not even, they won't feel the intimidation to go out there. If there's even any experience of something they experienced now that they know this group, I can come here I can share it. So that's given a student, the students that firm the good place to start, and also the anti black racism task force by Centennial College. It's a good initiative. I was part of that, I contributed, worked on the educational piece of that with my group. But, again, it's been ongoing, I know this, the college is putting a lot of good work. That's not something that has professional expertise. This there's so many community consultations that has gone into this work. But it's it's just that apprehension that okay, that fear that is this going to be another piece of manual that will go on the shelf. You know, I have so many, I have a lot of belief and a lot of hope in this work that has, the work that has gone into the anti black racism task force working group on all the recommendations, but I'm so anxious and looking forward to them being put into practice, you know, that's where you get that reassurance. That's where you get that comfort and like, yes, the college is actually listening, you know, when they actually see those recommendations being put to action, that will be the justification to know that other work put into that was worth it. And it's not just performative, are the recommendation actually being actioned? So that's what I'm really looking forward too, so much work from so many black people, so many non black a lot of interviews went into that work. So I'm really anxious, I'm looking forward to see the actions that will come out of it.

Joyce Mgbolu  43:32

Thank you Basirat. And I'm gonna, so, going to Talisa, in terms of, Basirat mentioned something about ensuring that, that she's hoping that the, all the work that has been done by the anti black racism task force will not go on the shelf. So we are students, we are wishing, that it comes to reality. And these actions, like, this plan is going to be beneficial to to the black community within the college and even outside of college because-

Talisa Boland  44:07

It's on their radar. And I believe you know, the chairs, they care, they care about the work they do, they're doing, they are also black identifying, identifying racialized folks. You know, I think that there's a quote that I often use. People don't care about how much you know, until they know how much you care. And I get the sense that they care. It's not just about knowing and here's my degrees and people need to know you care. And I'm seeing that what I call heart work within the anti black racism Taskforce. So while I can't speak for the whole thing, I am optimistic, but I also Basirat, I, your anxiety resonates with me as well too, because I think a lot of times we come together, we put pen to paper, we understand, but it's that action piece, but I think there's great representation within the anti black racism taskforce and I'm excited to see what comes comes out of it. We're talking about a lot of the things that you all mentioned, I started taking notes because again, there's again, I briefly mentioned, more work going on within the SSW program that I'm involved with, with other black staff who are trying to again, do these action pieces. So I took in some of the things that you said, we're trying to do, you know, the safe spaces that you all spoke about, that are so important for folks to be able to have, we're trying to have, you know, more representation and not just some representation in terms of like there are, there's black faculty within Centennial. But they're involved in the decision making processes as well to about what happens with the black community within Centennial. So it's not just about having, I think sometimes there's this notion that you have a seat at the table, you should be so grateful. It's not just about having a seat at the table, it's about okay, the action that we're talking about that comes from it as well to you. So I'm excited about that. I see people mobilizing their privilege. Within the anti black racism task force, it's not just made up of members who are black, there are members who are indigenous, there are members who are white as well, too, which I think gives me hope as well, too, because as I said before, this is not just our fight for people who look like us. So that gives me hope. Because you know, you have to be ready to be uncomfortable to do this work. We as black people have been navigating the world in an uncomfortable state at times our whole lives, right. So it's time for those who hold the power and privilege as well to, to feel some of that, and see that, we're having some uncomfortable discussions, which need to happen, because this is not just fluffy work, where we're going to be polite, and just keep it surface level. It's hard work that we're doing to combat this. So I'm optimistic about the action pieces. And I also see you know, I called it up before, putting your money where your mouth is, I see that there are some initiatives that involve dollars and will take money to do some of these things as well, too. So there's budgeting and planning around finances with that, too. So you had a choice. I can't say what will happen in the future. But I can say from what I've seen, I am optimistic, I think they're taking steps in the right direction, to try and address and combat this anti black racism we're seeing within, within Centennial College.

Joyce Mgbolu  47:11

Thank you so much. At least we're hopeful and believing that everything will work out. I like the fact that we are working as a collective, yes, respective of how you look, your color and all that which makes it so, so important. Because having, not just having allies, but having allies that put u,  to put action into what you're doing. Because you actually have allies that just say, oh, we will do this. And yet, they're not being part of the solution or being part of the plan to take out that action to make these things come to, to reality. So I'm really, really, I think I must commend you all in Task Force. And I also commend Centennial College for giving that space, because if you look at majorly, all the universities and colleges, you still have some colleges or universities that do not really give that safe space for you to carry out such actions. So well done to the task force and well donr to Centennial College, and every other department that is working towards ensuring that we have a platform where we can really really thrive as black people. Okay, finally, Talisa. What steps should we as a collective, okay, I think you've addressed that, to address the issue of anti black racism. You've addressed that. So I don't think, I don't think there's any other thing to add. Yeah, I think we've all done a great job of in terms of you know, addressing that the things that you can take to take care of your mental health and well being for sure. So, so it's been an amazing, amazing time with you all, I learned a lot. It's like, a lot, so much wisdom. So inspirational. I'm sure this episode will really be beneficial to a lot of people. Okay, before we wrap up the episode, I would like to thank Brandon, Basirat and Talisa, and I will also give open the floor to ask Bassirat and Brandon if they have any questions for Talisa. And if not, we can move on.

Basirat Naphew  49:29

Not a question. It's more just a commendation. I know its always glad in my heart, like when I see representation, let's just put it that way, you know, and also like people of color in spaces, like they kind of inspire and motivate others as well. So it's good to see like you might, yes, what, what are people talking about, you know, when they say black people can do this. This is a representation. This is somebody that has done it and there's so many more. You know, Professor, Donor, nowadays, we have so many black people within our centennial social service worker community. And they so many people like that we have Dr. Zahn, you know, we have, we have, we also have Patricia, we have so many people. So that whether Tricia, I mean Patricia to, say, and there's also, I forgot their names, but there's a lot, you know, it just gladdens your hearts to know that this can be done and not just being there. These are people that speak up. So you're motivated to, to be like, you know, what, yes, this is what we need, we need people to speak, okay. And that encourages, as it encourages students that are just entering the college, when they experience discrimination that it is okay, you're not some, you've not done anything wrong. So you are the one that should be speaking up, you should not be silenced. So when we say, if we like yourself, it really motivates and inspires others to do this work and activists and so to see and advocates.

Joyce Mgbolu  51:04

Well, I think I'll reply to you,

Talisa Boland  51:07

I just I just wanted to say, to say thank you, and I applaud you know, all the black professionals within our college who like you said, it's not just about being there, it's about speaking up as well, too. I applaud you, as students for speaking up, this is not easy, this is gonna go out to the masses, and you're talking about your experiences as well, too. So I tip my hat to you as well, too, that representation piece is so important, you know, I've had quite a few students tell me that I'm the first black teacher they've ever had. And while it's such a heartwarming feeling like I can be that representation, there's a hurtful piece of evidence as well too. Like you've gone through elementary school, you've gone through high school, some of them have done University and come in or college before and this is their second diploma. And it's hard, but you know, we thrive, I think Joyce said, we are resilient, powerful, beautiful, wonderful people. So I am I'm proud of you both for even just being all three of you for just even being a student. There are people again, going back again, to to what I was saying before that don't expect us to be here that don't expect you to thrive. So hats off to you. Hats off to you.

Joyce Mgbolu  52:12

Thank you, Talisa, for those words of encouragement. So Brandon, anything for, anything you want to say to Talisa?

Brandon Calliste  52:21

Oh, yeah, I'm about to double back on what Basirat said, Yeah, I'm one of those students that didn't really have the option of a black teacher, to be honest, you know, I just didn't have it. Maybe a substitute came in once. And I was like, Yeah, we made it, you know, but, um, we didn't have too much or it's, it's, you got to give them their flowers, you know, it's amazing to see. Just, Just seeing you there, you know, impacts us so we're like, yeah, we can do it too. And, and just you being there, you know, shows, so we need to get out the praise that you deserve. And your, your beautiful black smart woman, you know, and that's amazing. And, and I think like for the young ones, they see this they like, I went to school just so my little sister can do it. You know, I didn't necessarily want to do it at the time, but I just knew how that the impact of what would drive you know, we were one of the first ones that went to college and to do this. So I'm also I was going to double say this. I know the city has even said the mayor said like they're putting money towards this anti black because they they know that it's running, it's going out of control right now. So that shows like how much this is needed, how much this discussion is needed, and how much what you guys are doing is needed, even you, Joyce, so this is amazing. And I'm happy that if this can just reach anybody and maybe spark something in them to do more and to fight and to even like you said it's not just black but also the white people, all types of people, Chinese and like everyone, we all need to come together because we all. we all gonna. we all have our own fights and you know, we need to show that we care. It's a human thing.

Joyce Mgbolu  54:04

Yeah. Well, Brandon. So, so inspirational . Thank you.

Talisa Boland  54:12

Thank you for your kind words and both Basirat, Brandon, Joyce, we're connected. But please stay in touch, touch with me connect, connect, as we talked about before, community is important, support, resiliency. So please feel free to connect with me. But thank you, Brandon, for your for your kind words as well, too.

Brandon Calliste  54:29

No problem. No problem.

Joyce Mgbolu  54:30

Okay, thank you everyone. That brings us to the end of this amazing and thought provoking episode. Once again, thank you to Basirat, Brandon and Talisa on joining me this discussions on overcoming racial trauma and anti black racism, and I hope the discussions are beneficial to you. As always, thank you for listening to the Undiluted Podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the Centennial College podcast on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and Spotify. Bye for now.